Thirteen

This having been said, the venerable Subhuti asked, "Bhagavan, what is the name of this dharma teaching, and how should we remember it?"

The Buddha told the venerable Subhuti, "The name of this dhatma teaching, Subhuti, is the Perfection of Wisdom. Thus should you remember it. And how so? Subhuti, what the Tathagata says is the perfection of wisdom, the Tathagata says is no perfection. Thus it is called the `perfection of wisdom.'

"Subhuti, what do you think? Is there any such dharma spoken by the Tathagata?"

Subhuti said, "No, indeed, Bhagavan. There is no such dharma spoken by the Tathagata."

The Buddha said, "Subhuti, what do you think? Are all the specks of dust in the billion-world-system of a universe many?"

Subhuti said, "Many, Bhagavan. The specks of dust are many, Sugata. And how so? Because, Bhagavan, what the Tathagata says is a speck of dust, Bhagavan, the Tathagata says is no speck. Thus is is called a `speck of dust.' And what the Tathagata says is a world-system, the Tathagata says is no system. Thus is it called a `world-system.'

The Buddha said, "Subhuti, what do you think? Can the Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened One be seen by means of the thirty-two attributes of a perfect person?"

Subhuti said, "No, indeed, Bhagavan. The Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened One cannot be seen by means of the thirty-two attributes of a perfect person. And why not? Because, Bhagavan, what the Tathagata says are the thirty-two attributes of a perfect person, the Tathagata says are no attributes. Thus are they called the `thirty-two attributes of a perfect person.'"

The Buddha said, "Furthermore, Subhuti, if a man or woman renounced their self-existence every day as many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges and renounced their self-existence in this manner for as many kalpas as there are grains of sand in the Ganges, and someone grasped but one four-line gatha of this dharma teaching and made it known and explained it to othere, the body of merit produced as a result would be immeasurably, infinitely greater." [Translation by red Pine]

Subhuti asked Buddha: "What is this teaching on dharma and how shall it be remembered?"

Buddha answered: "This teaching, Subhuti, is known as Prajnaparamita, the perfection of wisdom, and you should remember it as such. Yet the very discourse the Tathagata has taught as `the perfection of wisdom' is exactly the teaching which is not the perfection of wisdom. Thus it only called the Prajnaparamita.

"Do you think, Subhuti, that the Tathagata has taught any special dharama?"

"No, Buddha," Subhuti answered, "not at all!" [Tranlation by Joshua Pritikin]

Then Subhuti said to the Buddha, "World Honored One, what is this sutra to be named? How should we uphold it?"

The Buddha told Subhuti, "This sutra is named Diamond Prajnaparamita; you should uphold it by this name. Why? Subhuti, the prajnaparamita explained by the Buddha is not prajnaparamita."

"What do you think, Subhuti---does the Realized One have a doctrine to preach?"

Subhuti said to the Buddha, "World Honored One, the Realized One has no doctrine."

"Subhuti, what do you think---are there many atoms in a billion-world universe?"

Subhuti said, "Very many World-Honored One."

"Subhuti, those atoms the Realized One says are not atoms, they are called atoms. The Realized One says that the universe is not the universe, it is called the universe."

"Subhuti, what do you think---can the Realized One be seen by way of the thirty-two marks?"

"No World Honored One, the Buddha cannot be seen by way of the thirty-two marks. Why? The thirty-two marks explained by the Realized One are not marks, they are called the thirty-two marks."

"Subhuti, suppose there are good men and good women who give countless lives in charity. Now suppose there are people who accept and hold the equivalent of even a four-line verse of this sutra and explain it to others; their blessings would be much more." [Translation by Thomas Cleary]