Thirty

"Subhuti, if a good man or a good woman pulverized the billion-world universe into atoms, do you think there would be many of these atoms?"

Subhuti said, "Very many, World Honored One. Why? If these atoms were really existent, then the Buddha would not say they were a mass of atoms. Why? The Buddha says a mass of atoms is not a mass of atoms, it is called a mass of atoms.

"World Honored One, the billion-world universe spoken of by the Realized One is not a universe, it is called a universe."

"What is the reason? If the universe really existed, it would be a compound; but the Realized One says that a compound is not a compound, it is called a compound."

"Subhuti, the compound is inexpressible, but ordinary people greedily cleave to their affairs."
[Thomas Cleary]

"If a man or woman took a galaxy for every particle of dust in this vast galaxy and thoroughly ground each one until it was reduced to atoms, would the heap of atoms be great?"

"Indeed, Buddha," Subhuti answered, "the heap of atoms would be immense. And yet this enormous heap of atoms is not really a heap of atoms, even though it is called 'a heap of atoms'.

"Further, although the Tathagata has said 'galaxy,' he teaches that it is not in truth a galaxy. For, Buddha, if there were in truth a galaxy, it would be a material object to be seized upon, and the Tathagata has taught that there is no seizing at all."

"Indeed, Subhuti," Buddha said, "this 'seizing upon a material object' is a convention of language, an expression devoid of real content. It is neither dharma nor adharma, even though ordinary people have seized upon it foolishly." [Joshua Pritikin]

"Furthermore, Subhuti, if a noble son or daughter took as many worlds as there are specks of dust in a billion-world universe and by an expenditure of limitless energy ground them into a multitude of atoms, Subhuti, what do you think, would there be a great multitude of atoms?"

Subhuti replied, "So there would, Bhagavan. So there would, Sugata. There would be a great multitude of atoms. And why? If a great multitude of atoms existed, Bhagavan, the Tathagata would not have spoken of a `multitude of atoms.' And why? Bhagavan, this multitude of atoms of which the Tathagata speaks is said by the Tathagata to be no multitude. Thus it is called a `multitude of atoms.' Also, Bhagavan, this `billion world universe' of which the Tathagata speaks is said by the Tathagata tp be no universe. Thus is it called a `billion-world universe.' And how so? Bhagavan, if a universe existed, attachment to an entity would exist. But whenever the Tathagata speaks of attachment to an entity, the Tathagata speaks of it as no attachment. Thus it is called `attachment to an entity.'"

The Buddha said, "Subhuti, attachment to an entity is inexplainable and inexpressible. For it is neither a dharma nor no dharma. Foolish people, though, are attached." [Red Pine]