Twenty

"Subhuti, what do you think---can the Buddha be seen by his perfect physical body?"

"No, World Honored One. The Realized One is not to be seen by his perfect physical body. Why? The Realized One says the prefect physical body is not a perfect physical body, it is called a perfect physical body."

"Subhuti, what do you think---can the Realized One be seen by the full complement of distinguishing marks?"

"No, World Honored One. The Realized One is not to be seen by the full complement of distinguishing marks. Why? The Realized One says that the full complement of distinguishing marks is not the full complement, it is called the full complement of distinguishing marks." [Translation Thomas Cleary]

"Is the Tathagata to be seen," Buddha asked, "in the manifestation of his form?"

"Indeed not," Subhuti replied, "for the Tathagata has taught that the manifestation of his form is no manifestation, even though it is called `the manifestation of his form.'" [Translation by Joshua Pritikin]

"Subhuti, what do you think? Can the Tathagata be seen by means of the perfect development of the physical body?"

Subhuti replied, "No, indeed, Bhagavan. The Tathagata cannot be seen by means of the perfect development of the physical body. And why not? The perfect development of the physical body, Bhagavan, the `perfect development of the physical body' is spoken of by the Tathagata as no development. Thus it is called `the perfect development of the physical body.'"

The Buddha said, "Subhuti, what do you think? Can the Tathagata be seen by means of the possession of attributes?"

Subhuti replied, "No, indeed, Bhagavan. The Tathagata cannot be seen by means of the possession of attributes. And why not? Bhagavan, what the Tathagata speaks of as the possession of attributes is spoken of by the Tathagata as no possession of attributes. Thus it is called the `possession of attributes.'" [translation by red pine]