Twenty-Six

"Subhuti, what do you think---can you view the Realized One in terms of the thirty-two marks?"

Subhuti said, "That's the way it is---we view the Realized One in terms of the thirty-two marks."

The Buddha said, "If you view the Realized One in terms of the thirty-two marks, then a law-giving sage ruler would be a Realized One."

Subhuti said to the Buddha, "World Honored One, as I understand the meaning of what the Buddha says, we should not view the Realized One in term of the thirty-two marks."

At that point the World Honored One said in verse,

"Anyone who sees me in form,
Or who seeks me through sound,
Is traveling a false path
And cannot see the Realized One."

[Thomas Cleary]

Who sees me by form, Who sees me in sound, Perverted are his footsteps upon the way; For he cannot perceive the tathagata. The Buddhas are seen through dharma, From dharma-bodies their guidance comes; But the nature of dharma is never discerned, It cannot be grasped by the mind alone.

[Joshua Pritikin]

"Subhuti, what do you think? Can the Tathagata be seen by means of the possession of attributes?"

Subhuti replied, "No, indeed, Bhagavan. As I understand the meaning of what the Buddha says, the Tathagata cannot be seen by means of the possession of attributes."

The Buddha said, "Well done, Subhuti. Well done. So it is, Subhuti. It is as you claim. The Tathagata cannot be seen by means of the possession of attributes, a universal king would be a tathagata. Hence, the Tathagata cannot be seen by means of the possession of attributes."

The venerable Subhuti said to the Buddha, "As I understand the meaning of what the Buddha says, the tathagata cannot be seen by means of the possession of attributes."

On that occasion the Buddha then spoke this gatha:

"Who looks for me in form
who seeks me in a voice
indulges in wasted effort
such people see me not."

[Red Pine]

What do you think, Subhuti, is the Tathagata to be seen by means of his possession of marks?---Subhuti replied: No, indeed, O Lord.---The Lord said: If, Subhuti, the Tathagata could be recognized by his possession of marks, then also the universal monarch would be a tathagata. Therefore the Tathagata is not to be seen by means of his possession of marks.---Subhuti then said: As I, O Lord, understand the Lord's teaching, the Tathagata is not to be seen through his possession of marks.

Further the Lord taught on that occasion the following stanzas:

Those who by my form did see me,
And those who followed me by voice
Wrong the efforts they engaged in,
Me those people will not see.

From the Dharma should one see the Buddhas,
From the Dharmabodies comes their guidance.
Yet Dharma's true nature cannot be discerned,
And no one can be conscious of an object.

[Edward Conze]